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Post by displacement on Jul 13, 2013 6:26:26 GMT 10
I think Lorren knew Kvothe's mother when she was still a Lackless.
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Post by strangebrewd on Jul 13, 2013 6:49:43 GMT 10
Interesting. Maybe he was traveling with K's troupe when Laurian ran away with them. That would be awesome if that is who tells him about his Mom being a Lackless .
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Post by Ivory Doom on Jul 13, 2013 9:10:30 GMT 10
It's not horribly far fetched displacement she'd probably have been relatively well known, Meluan seems to be. strangebrewd - I have no clue who he might be, I can't think of any anagrams or anything like that. But he does seem to have some kind of attachment to Puppet. I wouldn't compare Puppet and Bast regularly, but it's kinda interesting how both characters have a close eccentric friend. |
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Post by zupoleon on Jul 14, 2013 2:31:59 GMT 10
Hmmm, the Chandrian as the good guys sounds pretty heretical, heheh. But I think there is enough there to look into. Consider the irony alone if they were indeed revealed to be the good guys - mistakingly vilified throughout history, not unlike our favorite protagonist?  That would be a wicked parallel, both Kvothe and the Chandrian feared, misunderstood, and persecuted because of their abilities... |
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Post by lalaley on Jul 14, 2013 7:52:23 GMT 10
The problem I have with the Chandrian being the misunderstood good-guys, is that it doesn't take away from the fact that they killed his parents. To me, it would be a pointless twist. That would be implying that he parent's weren't good people. The whole point of him researching them, trying to track them down, is because he wants to avenge his parents. And if he does manage to find them, and he kills them (or one/some of them) wouldn't that make Kvothe one of the bad guys? A nice idea, but I just don't think it would work into the story.
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Post by zupoleon on Jul 14, 2013 10:41:23 GMT 10
The problem I have with the Chandrian being the misunderstood good-guys, is that it doesn't take away from the fact that they killed his parents. To me, it would be a pointless twist. That would be implying that he parent's weren't good people. The whole point of him researching them, trying to track them down, is because he wants to avenge his parents. And if he does manage to find them, and he kills them (or one/some of them) wouldn't that make Kvothe one of the bad guys? A nice idea, but I just don't think it would work into the story. Oh I couldn't agree more. I was only throwing out a what if scenario. The only way I could entertain the possibility is if Kvothe's troupe was in fact not massacred by the Chandrian, which is quite contrary to what the text implies. The group (less Haliax) mockingly ask where Kvothe's parents are, laughing at him all the while. That doesn't sound like good guys to me. Haliax, however, is intriguing. It doesn't seem like he takes any pleasure in whats been done. I'm not suggesting he's entirely good either, but there is more to him than meets the eye. He scolds Cinder, telling him he's forgotten his purpose, later the entire group, unhappy with their cruelty. And something about the way Haliax reminds them that he protects them from the Amyr. Isn't it usually the good guys that need protection from the bad? Perhaps Haliax's true, original purpose for the Chandrian isn't as sinister as we might think... |
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Post by lalaley on Jul 14, 2013 22:29:46 GMT 10
The problem I have with the Chandrian being the misunderstood good-guys, is that it doesn't take away from the fact that they killed his parents. To me, it would be a pointless twist. That would be implying that he parent's weren't good people. The whole point of him researching them, trying to track them down, is because he wants to avenge his parents. And if he does manage to find them, and he kills them (or one/some of them) wouldn't that make Kvothe one of the bad guys? A nice idea, but I just don't think it would work into the story. Oh I couldn't agree more. I was only throwing out a what if scenario. The only way I could entertain the possibility is if Kvothe's troupe was in fact not massacred by the Chandrian, which is quite contrary to what the text implies. The group (less Haliax) mockingly ask where Kvothe's parents are, laughing at him all the while. That doesn't sound like good guys to me. Haliax, however, is intriguing. It doesn't seem like he takes any pleasure in whats been done. I'm not suggesting he's entirely good either, but there is more to him than meets the eye. He scolds Cinder, telling him he's forgotten his purpose, later the entire group, unhappy with their cruelty. And something about the way Haliax reminds them that he protects them from the Amyr. Isn't it usually the good guys that need protection from the bad? Perhaps Haliax's true, original purpose for the Chandrian isn't as sinister as we might think... Well, if we take the story of Lanre as the truth, then he only became 'Evil' because of the loss of his Lyra. So, I guess it could be argued as the actions of a man who feels he has nothing to lose. He didn't start off as 'bad', he was one of the good guys in the start of that tale. But, things happen and they change people. To be honest, the whole story of Lanre has slipped my mind, (to be honest, I'm not even sure if Lanre is the right name!) I see your point about the protection, but if you are an 'evil' organisation, the 'good' guys are you nemesis, and if they are particularly formidable, or skilled then yes - you would need protection. Just because some one is on the wrong side, doesn't mean they have the power to defeat the other. Sheesh, hope that makes sense! haha. |
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Post by displacement on Jul 15, 2013 1:03:30 GMT 10
I don't buy into the idea that the Chandrian are the good guys. Lets not forget that they killed the entire wedding party just because they were going to see a piece of pottery! I also think that Cinder was going to kill Kvothe, not just "send him beyond the door of sleep" and taunting a little boy before stabbing him is pretty convincingly evil to me.
It's still possible but they'd be pretty crappy good guys!
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Post by lalaley on Jul 15, 2013 1:26:57 GMT 10
I don't buy into the idea that the Chandrian are the good guys. Lets not forget that they killed the entire wedding party just because they were going to see a piece of pottery! I also think that Cinder was going to kill Kvothe, not just "send him beyond the door of sleep" and taunting a little boy before stabbing him is pretty convincingly evil to me. It's still possible but they'd be pretty crappy good guys! Oh, yes, I'd forgotten that part. They only reason he was left alive was because 'they' were coming... |
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Post by strangebrewd on Jul 16, 2013 0:22:08 GMT 10
How do we know the chandrian killed them? All we see is the aftermath when K goes to explore. They could have shown up afterward. Remember there was an amyr on that vase and they are trying to stay hidden as well. The girl says he is the worst of them. I know there are signs but we do not have solid proof it was the chandrian that killed the wedding party.
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Post by Ivory Doom on Jul 16, 2013 3:50:33 GMT 10
Honestly, we don't have solid proof the Chandrian killed any of those people. Kvothe comes upon all these scenes after everyone has already been killed, it's completely circumstantial - in america, they could literally get away with it if they had killed them. It stands to reason that if Kvothe comes along after, that another group could easily do the same thing, especially if they are chasing someone/something/some group.
It is suggestive that Cinder was possibly going to kill Kvothe, but it's hard to say for sure. It's also hard to say killing him wouldn't have been considered a mercy if no one was going to stick around and take care of him. Or maybe they just intended to put his mind to sleep and leave him. We really don't know. Even the Ctheah is vague enough that we can't say for certain they really killed anyone we think they have.
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Post by displacement on Jul 17, 2013 0:11:03 GMT 10
If you were caught at the site of a shooting, standing over a dead body with a gun in your hand, having a quick lunch... yeah, I think you'd be in some legal trouble! That goes pretty far beyond circumstantial evidence. If you then pull a knife on the only witness and start to come after them? You'd need Johny Cochran to get you out of that one.
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Post by Ivory Doom on Jul 17, 2013 2:00:12 GMT 10
Do they have drawn weapons when Kvothe arrives?
I don't remember that and I just loaned my book again. GRR!
I thought Cinder was the only one who drew a weapon after he spotted Kvothe? The rest of the present Chandrian just stood around like knobs while Haliax told Cinder who the boss was. Is that incorrect?
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Post by strangebrewd on Jul 17, 2013 11:41:54 GMT 10
From what I recall on my last re-read only cinder had a hand on his weapon(don't believe it was drawn). These parts with the chandrian are said from his perspective so they are obviously guilty with the recounting by K. But each time I read through I notice more and more where things are more than they appear. So I do not really take anything as a sure thing if K thinks it is.
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alexiel
Re'lar
Suonatrice di Sogni
Posts: 66 
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Post by alexiel on Jul 18, 2013 0:49:23 GMT 10
The Ctaeh describes Kvothe how his parents died and who killed them.The Ctaeh really enjoys telling terrible true things, in the most harsh way, just to see the reactions. It wouldn't be the same if those were all lies.
Also, I've found really interesting that Kvothe noticed that the Ctaeh is a "lady tree", a female. And I think that she is Lyra.
I know it's a dull theory, but... Lanre doesn't give a clear answer when questioned about all the rumors on Lyra, and his story doesn't sound completely right to me, because that's Selitos' point of view. Lanre was a noble hero that has spend most of his life fighting for the cities, he once died for them... I know that the death of a beloved partner can be heartbreaking, it's just that I don't think that's a good reason to become a monster like that, he wiped out seven cities, and keeps destroying everything and everyone who dare to investigate on him...I'm not saying that he's a good guy, he sure did terrible things, but something is wrong or is missing, about his story.
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That would be a wicked parallel, both Kvothe and the Chandrian feared, misunderstood, and persecuted because of their abilities...
