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Post by strangebrewd on Jul 18, 2013 3:12:09 GMT 10
Yeah Ctheah is an interesting one. It is told that it never lies and the Cthaeh knows this. So it phases things to imply something that will lead the listener(K) to actions of its own design. But it almost feels like it names a person the listener knows, then in the following sentence starts talking about something else, but gives the impression it is still referring to aforementioned party. It's still telling the truth, but spilling BS at the same time. At least that's what it feels like to me.
As for Lyra I haven't heard that one before. Not sure if I agree, but hey this is the perfect thread to make a case for it.
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Post by Ivory Doom on Jul 18, 2013 3:29:33 GMT 10
Thanks strangebrewd, thats kinda what I thought, but wasn't sure. I think there is a case for the idea that Cinder is just kinda cruel, being something of a faeling and likly living for as long as Haliax, making him a relative 5000 years or something ridiculous - that can make anyone dissociative. That isn't a crime however. That just makes him a jerk. As for Ctheah, alexiel, it's worded in a way that it only IMPLYS that Cinder killed his parents. It says something like, Cinder is the one you want, which is true. Then it describes the massacre, which is true, but isn't necessarily in the same context or connected, then it says, did things to your mother. Terrible. The punctuation is very specific too. In my opinion, what it does is create a scenario where Kvothe makes assumptions and thus follows suit with his natural predilection of seeking revenge. Literally Cinder could have done things to Kvothe's mother at any point in her life or even before that might have affected the outcome of her life, which led to a terrible event. What I got from the whole discussion was, for some reason, Ctheah has something against Cinder specifically, and it's sending Kvothe to do it's dirty work. *EDIT I don't know what my problem is but I just cannot tag your name apperantly Alexial. |
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alexiel
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Post by alexiel on Jul 18, 2013 10:11:36 GMT 10
Ivory Doom I see why it's not working, my name is Alexiel, not Alexial, you are writing it wrong...eheh!! For the Ctheah.... let's see, if I can explain myself better than in my previous post.... I agree with both of you, about the fact that the Ctheah says what she wants, not necessarily following the right timeline. She also implys many things, and the only one which we can be (quite) sure is that she hates Cinder. My point is that I personally don't think that the Ctheah lies, because I believe that the truth is way more fun... Ctheah loves to break people, is there anything better than the truth to accomplish this goal? If this is the purpose, than I see no point in lying. That's my feeling about the Ctheah. She doesn't lie, but she cleverly manipulates the truth..maybe hiding crucial details or telling it in the wrong temporal order.... leading Kvothe, her pawn in the game (I believe this, since the Sithe didn't show up), exactly where she wants him to go: on the way of seeking revenge. When he will eventually figure out that he's been manipulated, it might be too late. But.... can you english speakers tell me how you say Ctheah? I barely can't pronounce it!  Does it sound similar to Cthulhu?
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Post by strangebrewd on Jul 18, 2013 11:45:52 GMT 10
Ka-th-ah basically same as Cthulhu cept the end(maybe they are related). I would recommend trying the audiobooks on your next time through the book. The voice actor is great, and worked with Pat on how to pronounce each name in the book so it is helpful. I did it on my 2nd time through and found I was saying like half of the names wrong in my head...
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Post by Ivory Doom on Jul 19, 2013 2:29:18 GMT 10
I fixed my tag! What a dope, I am. LOL Yes alexiel I agree, I don't think the Ctheah lies either. I think he tells the truth in a measured way so that what it says is true, but what you assume it means is wrong. Hopefully that makes some sense. I agree you should check out the audioversion if you can, it's really well done. I always ended the word Ctheah with more of an "AY" noise. |
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Post by strangebrewd on Jul 19, 2013 3:21:15 GMT 10
Your right it is more of an AY at the end.
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alexiel
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Post by alexiel on Jul 19, 2013 10:49:31 GMT 10
Thank you both, it's an excellent suggestion... I've never thought of using an audiobook, but I should try, it sure will be an overwhelming experience.
Does it work even on an mp3 player?
Now, OT topic again... I believe that Kvothe is not the only Chtaeh's pawn. In fact, I think that Skarpi is been used too, but unlike Kvothe he's aware of it.
I only own the italian version of the first book, so I can't report here the exact words... but I remember that when Chronicler first reveals himself, Kote said something not really nice about Skarpi. Since we left Skarpi in Tarbean, I expect that something awful will happen in the third book.
Kvothe never heard Arliden's song about Lanre and the Chandrian, Skarpi was the first one to tell Lanre's story to Kvothe, and Kvothe trusted him.
I really wonder how Arliden's song was.... and why he is dead, while Skarpi is still alive (I have the feeling that the Chandrian only kill those who come closer to the real truth, and I believe that Skarpi lied.)
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Post by strangebrewd on Jul 19, 2013 11:45:27 GMT 10
Yeah you can listen to it on MP3, I listen to it on my phone as an MP3 file.
Yeah I think if the popular theory that Skarpi is an Amyr is true then that is why the 7 stay away. He could even tell the story to get people to talk about it and attract the Chandrian to his approximate location. The more people talk about it in the city he is in, the more likely the Chandrian would show up.
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alexiel
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Post by alexiel on Jul 19, 2013 12:19:06 GMT 10
Assuming as a matter of fact that the Amyr are the good people.... I don't think Skarpi is on of them, because I believe him to be on the bad side. If not, why Kvothe doesn't seem to respect him? Or maybe he indeed is an Amyr, and they are not so good.
I believe him to be a bad guy, because is primarily his fault if Kvothe thinks at Lanre as a traitor and a murder (yes, he is, but as I wrote in my previous post, I think that the story told by Skarpi is lame)
The Chtaeh wants Kvothe to take revenge, and Skarpi provided him a lame story to fuel this desire.
My theory isn't supported by actual facts, is more based on the feelings I had while reading the chapter when Kvothe met the Chandrian, after his parents murder. Lanre/Haliax doesn't seem cruel, he even asked Cinder to quickly kill the boy with any further sufference.. .He did kill people and get credit for it, but to me he sounded kind of resigned. Like if he didn't care anymore about the rest of the world's opinion, not even his own.
What I really wonder is why does he need to party with Cinder and the others, that seem rather different from him.
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Post by lalaley on Jul 19, 2013 22:31:01 GMT 10
alexiel ooh, I didn't pick up that its a lady tree. I guess you probably notice more by having to translate it. I just don't know about them not being the bad guys. Kvothe has spent two books obsessing over them because he believes they killed his parents. Knowing Kvothe, if they turn out not to be the responsible ones, he will only have one book to find out who it was. I just can't believe that Kvothe's story will finish without his finding his revenge...
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alexiel
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Post by alexiel on Jul 20, 2013 12:59:48 GMT 10
lalaley ehehe... the entire Fae's part has been a nightmare but I can say that translating the Chtaeh was lot easier than translating Felurian... took me days to understand the story of the stolen moon 
I actually believe that the Chandrian did kill Kvothe's parents. But during their short encounter, he was too shocked ... so the only things that he knows about Haliax, are based on that story told by Skarpi. Kvothe trusted Skarpi because it was perfectly fitting the feelings that he had, it confirmed him that he was totally right in seeking revenge and that was no need to investigate a little more. He now just wants to seek them out and kill them.
Kvothe had a bad reaction when he heard Denna's song about Lanre being the hero, he just assumes he's right and she's not... even if she is a friend and maybe deserves more credit for it.
So that's why a believe that Skarpi is a bad guy. I think he took advantage of Kvothe's situation and easily manipulated him.
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Post by kittywitty on Sept 15, 2013 11:35:31 GMT 10
Yeah I think Kvothe is wrong about most things. It is a common occurrence in the books and I think that makes the Chandrian being the good guys a possible theory (the Elodin part is a bit out there though). I never thought of the Edema being just as they are rumored, but you make a good point. The name of time thing is something I haven't heard before. I always assumed it would be more of a curse that he can't "die" so when he does he just comes back in a new form. I suppose time could have a name, but then again it is just a man-made concept really, would be like love having a name. Maybe knowing your own true name and being able to shape it you could regenerate or "reshape" yourself. If Taborlin was a shaper he could do something like that I think. Or any of the shapers really. (God I feel like I am coming up with lost theories from way back, I should stop smoking/drinking when I post) Good points. He does seem rather naïve about many things. It would be quite the kicker if he was wrong about the Ruh, Chandrian, *and* his lineage. That seems like a whole lot to change with only one book left, but it would make sense if he renamed himself Kote partly to distance himself from his entire past-family, friends, purpose in life and all. I'll admit that I like the theory that Skarpi is more than what he seems. |
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